UA-44735833-1
Nissan Qashqai Owners Club UK Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Qashqai Care and Technical Information > Diesel Heads > 2.0 diesel
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Diesel - to chip or remap? Any benefits???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Nissan Qashqai Club


Diesel - to chip or remap? Any benefits???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
rustyfrog View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Location: Leyland
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustyfrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 8:50pm
I ran a Renault Laguna 2 ltr dci with 170 bhp (company car) before the Qasquai (my own) and loved the performance, I just drove it if you know what I mean, and still got an average mpg of nearly 50.
Just wondering is it the same engine in the QQ but in a lower tune.

The thought of getting similar performance out of my QQ certainly interests me but not if it affects the warranty, insurance and tyre wear.

Decisions, decisions!
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left!

2011 QQ + 2, Ntec, 2L dci 4wd, Blade Silver, + Chrome pack
Back to Top
ericos View Drop Down
Premier
Premier
Avatar
Night Crawler

Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Royston Vasey
Status: Offline
Points: 4316
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 12:25am
How much extra was the insurance premium after you had it done though? They are getting wise  to the  fact that a lot of people are doing this & it would be easy enough for them to check if they decided they wanted an excuse not to pay out. If you havent informed them then your insurance is null & void. Be intresting to see how much extra they charge.
Also  I  could see warranty issues (for a car  still under  warranty) with a dealer blaming it for a fault (even if had nothing  to do with it).
Still it's an option I would havegone  for if I was youngerLOL.

EDIT - didnt notice the last post & this was mainly in reply to the previous oneWink


Edited by ericos - 07 Jul 2012 at 12:28am
2nd QQ ..June 2013 Black +2 360.. After moustaches in Movember, all those beards in Decembeard, I'm not looking forward to Fanuary
Back to Top
frank1 View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frank1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 7:02am
First it was no mo more, and it is not easy to check as it is a remap and uses the original map with alteration done within the programme, there fore it is the original map still on the car, to tell if it had been altered it would take a computer programmer to tell not a garage machanic
Back to Top
brainzzz View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 176
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainzzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 7:15am
am i right in thinking that the 1.5 dci is the renault unit and when built they are rated at 130 bhp and nissan remap for 106 and 110 bhp
Back to Top
frank1 View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frank1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 7:43am
Mine is 139 after remap
Back to Top
John C S View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 311
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John C S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2012 at 10:44pm
The reasons that manufacturers don't tune their engines up to full potential is for reliability, emissions and to standardise bhp between all models of a type produced. Small differences in power and torque may occur even then.
John C S

Nissan Qashqai+2 2009 (Pre-facelift) 1.6 n-tec in Pearl Black
Back to Top
2Fat2Bald View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1571
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 12:25am
If you're going to remap or chip or otherwise tune the car, then for GODS SAKE tell your insurance. Otherwise you literally may as well not have any. And it's not just your car your risking, it's other people's lives, health and property. Don't be a selfish prick, get insured. If you can't afford the extra premium, then you can't afford to do the mods.

I wouldn't go about thinking that a Mechanic can't tell the if a car has been remapped. Most of them personally couldn't, but it wouldn't be too hard to make a simple tool that would test it for them with no technical knowledge required to use it. Believe me, I've worked in IT and electronics long enough.

How might it work? - Just off the top of my head I can think of two approaches.

What if it did a bit-by-bit comparison on the ECU's EPROM chips? - the CRCs may be forged - but there will STILL be bit-level differences because something has been changed. So run through the non-volatile storage comparing it to a reference image - do they match? All data is just bytes at some level, and all bytes just bits. Quite a simple program, really.

Or - if you want to be clever about it - a box that simulates a set of variables (eg revs, load, throttle position etc) and checks what results the ECU returns to the simulation. Does the ECU behave as expected? If you should have 6psi boost at 3000rpm - why does the ECU request 8?

Either approach (and there are MANY others) would be possible to wrap into a nice, simple machine that the mechanic, insurance adjuster or traffic policeman (god help you!) plugs into the ECU, presses a button and waits a moment, and the light comes on to say either pass or fail. Then it goes back to someone who really, really knows that they're doing to extract the forensic evidence for court.

Similarly, you will have an issue if the tuning box is detected by the ECU, or if it leaves evidence behind (electronic, or physical). Many ECUS will record the serial number of the device it's been talking to and how often they've been plugged/unplugged. It's all detectable, and in the interests of the manufacturers to build it in to prevent (what they'll see as) warranty fraud.

What if you have an accident and can't remove it (you're too injured, the bonnet won't open, you're on CCTV, the Police turn up before you have an chance). What if you're just pulled over and the Traffic police decide to check your VIN plate and see the tuning box (they can check with the ABI). Guess what? They tow your car away, drive you to the motorway exit and dump you there with paperwork telling you where you can swap £250 and valid insurance for your car. Within 14 days you get a NIP for driving without insurance - which you now have to explain to your boss....

Or you could just declare it, pay a small increase and never have to worry again and proceed in the knowledge that you did the right thing and can feel all smug if you have a misadventure that you don't need to sweat it, as you're in the clear.

Isn't that better?
Back to Top
frank1 View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frank1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 8:33am
Well surely is,ent that what everyone dose
Back to Top
rustyfrog View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Location: Leyland
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustyfrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 9:22am
Originally posted by frank1 frank1 wrote:

Well surely is,ent that what everyone dose


LOL  LOL LOL



Edited by rustyfrog - 08 Jul 2012 at 9:23am
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left!

2011 QQ + 2, Ntec, 2L dci 4wd, Blade Silver, + Chrome pack
Back to Top
rabbin8 View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by 2Fat2Bald 2Fat2Bald wrote:

If you're going to remap or chip or otherwise tune the car, then for GODS SAKE tell your insurance. Otherwise you literally may as well not have any. And it's not just your car your risking, it's other people's lives, health and property. Don't be a selfish prick, get insured. If you can't afford the extra premium, then you can't afford to do the mods.

I wouldn't go about thinking that a Mechanic can't tell the if a car has been remapped. Most of them personally couldn't, but it wouldn't be too hard to make a simple tool that would test it for them with no technical knowledge required to use it. Believe me, I've worked in IT and electronics long enough.

How might it work? - Just off the top of my head I can think of two approaches.

What if it did a bit-by-bit comparison on the ECU's EPROM chips? - the CRCs may be forged - but there will STILL be bit-level differences because something has been changed. So run through the non-volatile storage comparing it to a reference image - do they match? All data is just bytes at some level, and all bytes just bits. Quite a simple program, really.

Or - if you want to be clever about it - a box that simulates a set of variables (eg revs, load, throttle position etc) and checks what results the ECU returns to the simulation. Does the ECU behave as expected? If you should have 6psi boost at 3000rpm - why does the ECU request 8?

Either approach (and there are MANY others) would be possible to wrap into a nice, simple machine that the mechanic, insurance adjuster or traffic policeman (god help you!) plugs into the ECU, presses a button and waits a moment, and the light comes on to say either pass or fail. Then it goes back to someone who really, really knows that they're doing to extract the forensic evidence for court.

Similarly, you will have an issue if the tuning box is detected by the ECU, or if it leaves evidence behind (electronic, or physical). Many ECUS will record the serial number of the device it's been talking to and how often they've been plugged/unplugged. It's all detectable, and in the interests of the manufacturers to build it in to prevent (what they'll see as) warranty fraud.

What if you have an accident and can't remove it (you're too injured, the bonnet won't open, you're on CCTV, the Police turn up before you have an chance). What if you're just pulled over and the Traffic police decide to check your VIN plate and see the tuning box (they can check with the ABI). Guess what? They tow your car away, drive you to the motorway exit and dump you there with paperwork telling you where you can swap £250 and valid insurance for your car. Within 14 days you get a NIP for driving without insurance - which you now have to explain to your boss....

Or you could just declare it, pay a small increase and never have to worry again and proceed in the knowledge that you did the right thing and can feel all smug if you have a misadventure that you don't need to sweat it, as you're in the clear.

Isn't that better?
But in the real world mechanics are armed with nothing more than a diagnostics scanner, and these will not tell them if an ecu has been remapped. As for your rantings regarding tuning boxes, I think your going just a LITTLE over the top dont you. Chill out.
1.5dci N-TEC Magnetic Red, blue interior LEDs Mudflaps,Wind deflectors,DRLs,Bee sting aerial and Swan neck tow bar for Elsie Elddis.
Back to Top
2Fat2Bald View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1571
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 5:38pm
Not really - none of this is going to be difficult (relatively speaking) for car manufacturers to build in or test for.

Yes, most mechanics won't check to see if a car has been remapped during routine servicing (although increasingly they do - VAG and BMW assuredly can and do), but that's answering the wrong question, because not what we're talking about!

What we're talking about is the scenario where someone has a reason to look for modifications (Warranty or insurance claim, typically). At which point someone rather better equipped (and possibly with more specialist knowledge) than a mechanic takes over and will be almost certain to find the mods.

But you don't think it happens? - You're wrong, I'm afraid. I know two people personally that it's happened to. In both cases the cars were German (1 BMW and 1 Audi). One person had to pay £2000 towards repairs that would have been under warranty. The other person was charged with driving without insurance by the Fuzz, the insurance paid out of the 3rd party liability but his personal liability - no.
Back to Top
rabbin8 View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 6:32pm
I worked in a large VAG dealership for a few years, and believe me they dont give you time to do the servicing correctly never mind delving into the ECU system to look for modifications. Did the 2 people you mention have remaps or tuning boxes? the later is very obvious and would be seen by a 1st year apprentice, whereas a remap is most certainly not.
1.5dci N-TEC Magnetic Red, blue interior LEDs Mudflaps,Wind deflectors,DRLs,Bee sting aerial and Swan neck tow bar for Elsie Elddis.
Back to Top
2Fat2Bald View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1571
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 9:59pm
Actually, I can tell you.

The first person had a "box", which was spotted at a BMW dealership - the owner removed it before servicing but the car's systems had a record of it. Since the DPF was clogged (a common problem with boxes) they used this as a "get out" of the warranty claim. It also got back to his employers (it was a company car), so it was more than a bit embarrassing.

The Audi driver was a bit more unlucky. To cut a long story short they had a minor altercation with another vehicle (a bus, as it goes) during last winters few icey days. Well to cut a long story short the traffic fuzz have the car recovered and somehow - I don't know how - the loss adjusters get to the car to assess it's condition and detect the "undetectable" remap (done by a well-respected company). They tell the driver the "bad news" - their insurance in invalid and the police find out as well (I don't know how, though - maybe the insurance told them?). So - a charge of "driving without insurance", and the insurance company won't pay out on the driver's vehicle (although they do on the bus, thankfully).

Five years ago the industry (and the fuzz) hasn't caught up with remaps and boxes. Now they're increasingly savvy about it.

I'd always inform the insurance. It's usually not a big increase and is worth it for the peace of mind.
Back to Top
2Fat2Bald View Drop Down
Tekna
Tekna


Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1571
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2012 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by rabbin8 rabbin8 wrote:

the later is very obvious and would be seen by a 1st year apprentice, whereas a remap is most certainly not.



That's debatable, actually. The Box can (at least) be removed simply enough (although it's use may be recorded somewhere). That's rather harder with a remap!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.