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DPF or not??

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THE DARK LORD

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    Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:06pm
So having been assured back in August I didn't have a DPF, it now appears after having had the car serviced that they changed their minds and it does.  A fact comfirmed by them using DPF oil during the service.
 
So I've been under the car and looked, there is certainly something at the start of the exhaust but in situ it doesn't really look like the DPFs I've seen e.g. on Watchdog.
 
I'll put up a picture tomorrow clearly stating where the picture is taken from so 1.5 owners can look for themselves.
 
So this takes me back to the original question I asked the garage.."How do I know my DPF warning light works?"  The manual states it only comes on at ignition for the 2.0L engine.  So should the led fail for any reason you would never know until the engine warning light comes on.  By then you are due a forced regen which as it stands you'll have to pay for.
 
I think I'm going to ask NCS but in the meantime has anyone seen their warning light come on at ignition (during the diagnostic checks)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:09pm
Bet you are baffled now Cowp'sErmm 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:10pm
Cowpers....

I have this issue too. Having been told the DPF symbol should show on the panel on dash prior to start up (which I haven't got?)

When was your car registered....? mine registered on January 2011

Fee x


Totally confused now

Edited by FeeFeeReturns!!!! - 24 Oct 2011 at 6:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:15pm

Mine's Sept '10.  I can see the symbol there, its at about 22:00 if the rev counter were a clock and its right next to the hub of the needle.

However, I've read the appropriate section of the manual over and over again and it clealry states that this will only light up briefly on ignition for owners of the 2.0L engine.  wonder if you have an updated manual?

Mine may well never light up as we do a fair few miles and never short trips, but for those that do...if that bulb fails they will never know it and they won't know they need to do a 'regen run'.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:20pm
I will have a look, certainly I can't see the symbol (unlit)...

Interestingly, the Jukes DPF warning light didn't come on at start up either. I was told that was because the system had been updated and a 5th injector had been added to the system , this would assist in clearing the DPF. will check manual just now though...

Fee x


Cowpers.... manual is dated august 2010

Edited by FeeFeeReturns!!!! - 24 Oct 2011 at 6:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:26pm
Somewhere in the engine there should be a DPF sensor too (if you have a DPF). That measures the differential pressure of the filter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainzzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:28pm
mine has the triangle light that is on with the ignition them goes off after 15 seconds or so and my QQ was first registered 20 MAY 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:29pm
Well I must have the same manual as cowpers. it definitely says this warning light will only illuminate on M9R engines .....

It says the light will only come on should regeneration be required...

fee x
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainzzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:34pm
just found this taken from and add on an auction site ..it seems to be legal to remove the filter

What is the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)?......


Most diesel passenger cars, vans and commercial vehicles, built after 2006 have a DPF (diesel particulate filter) installed in the exhaust system. Some vehicles like Peugeot, Citreon & Fiat have had them fitted since 2001. This is a filter designed to reduce the soot particles created from engine conbustion from entering the atmosphere.

What It Does?......


The diesel particle filter removes polluting chemicals that result from diesel combustion before these particles of polluting matter reach the tailpipe and enter the atmosphere. It works similar to a catalytic converter by trapping and re-heating pollution.

Eventually all DPF filters will clog up at some time. Most manufacturers will swear this will be a long time, but since the technology is so new we will only find out through time how long they last. They are not cheap to replace and this has a lot of diesel aficionados worried.

The Affect of Diesel Particle Filters or DPF on Fuel Mileage?.....
The diesel particle filter itself creates an obstruction in the exhaust system. Combine this with the diesel catalytic converter and you have created several pounds per square inch of blockage on your exhaust pipe.

Since adding the DPF to the exhaust system does result in a loss of fuel mileage, many wonder why the government made this technology a requirement when it is not even used in most parts of the world. Now that diesel sold in the U.K is all ultra low sulphur there is not as much pollutant matter given off by diesel engines.

How We Carry Out The DPF REMOVAL & How This Helps You!!!


We can reprogram your vehicles engine management system to forget about the DPF so you will not have any warning lights on the dash, engine going in LIMP mode or any expensive problems in the future.

With our new custom made patched software installed in the engine management system and the DPF body cleared of the obstructions you will have a better free flowing exhaust system which will deliver more power, better fuel consumption and NO DPF clogging problems or warning lights ever again!!!

It's been brought to our attention that some companies are now offering DPF Removal services using cracked software and in some cases not even removing the DPF element from the exhaust system! We have been carrying out DPF removals longer than any other company in the UK and now offer a lifetime guarantee with all of our work. Come to the professionals and have the job done right the first time!

FAQ's

Is this Legal?

YES, there is no UK law stating you cannot modify a standard vehicle. As long as it's fit to pass an MOT it can drive legally on the road.

Will the vehicle pass an MPT once the DPF is removed?

YES, the DPF plays no part in the smoke test which takes place on the MOT

Can the DPF cause any problems in the future?

NO, As the filter element is gone it can't block the exhaust system anymore. The new software we install into the ECU will prevent the warning light coming on also.

How much does this cost?

This depends on the vehicle and which removal option you would like. But either way it will cost you a fraction of the cost of a new DPF!

Is this work guaranteed?

YES, If you bring the car to us and we carry out all the work then the DPF system is guaranteed for life against any future issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by brainzzz brainzzz wrote:

mine has the triangle light that is on with the ignition them goes off after 15 seconds or so and my QQ was first registered 20 MAY 2010


that warning light should be just to confirm that all diagnostic checks are underway... don't think it's anything necessarily directly connected to DPF... that said, if DPF failed while checks were underway, perhaps DPF would come on then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainzzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by FeeFeeReturns!!!! FeeFeeReturns!!!! wrote:

Originally posted by brainzzz brainzzz wrote:

mine has the triangle light that is on with the ignition them goes off after 15 seconds or so and my QQ was first registered 20 MAY 2010


that warning light should be just to confirm that all diagnostic checks are underway... don't think it's anything necessarily directly connected to DPF... that said, if DPF failed while checks were underway, perhaps DPF would come on then?


im thinking you are right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 7:02pm
Yeah my manual is dated August 2010 also Fee.  I needed pretty good sunlight and vieweing at the right angle to the see the position of the warning light, there's no question its there.
 
I'm fine with having a DPF, I don't think its having any effect on the car that I have noticed so far, it just bugs me that I cannot know that light is working until its needed!  Because if its not..I'm screwed..
 
There is definatley what looks like a sensor cable coming out of the suspected DPF so as per Mo's post this is likely to be the action end of the pressure differential sensor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nige65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 7:22pm
If the DPF light does not work you will tell there maybe a problem with the filter clogging as pressure will start to build and the exhaust gases will start to choke the engine it will seem like a misfire but not bad but will get much worse over time as i had this problem on my 2.0hdi peugeot in the end i bought peugeot planet diagnostics and checked the differential pressure sensor readings myself at 2000rpm its should read about 6mbar mine was 128mbar now that took nearly a year to get that bad so instead of replacing the DPF i had it removed but i would advise against that option as it does make more problems and the laws for removing the filter will change.
Also you can get false readings as the differential pressure sensor pipes can get blocked up with gunk water and may just need blowing through .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 7:50pm
Found this on the AA site.
I think if the DPF lights up then that is the time to get the engine hot so that the regeneration can be done.Thumbs Up
As it states:-If you ignore the warning light and keep driving in a relatively slow, stop/start pattern soot loading will continue to build up until around 75% when you can expect to see other dashboard warning lights come on too. At this point driving at speed alone will not be enough and you will have to take the car to a dealer for regeneration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 8:05pm
Euro5 engines, ie 1.5dci. Do not have a DPF warning light. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 8:47pm
Right..so here we are at the crux of the problem.  I can assure you my 1.5 has..let's say the icon for DPF waiting to be illuminated. 
It may or may not have an LED behind it:
If there is no light how will we ever know it needs the 'regen run'?
If there is a light how do we know its working until it comes on?
If the light is faulty it will never come on and we will never know until too late...do you see what I'm getting at?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 9:06pm
LOLYep. Very confusing innitErmm and if you tell Nissan that the light never came on. All they will say is "yea right" Wacko
We need clarification as to what's what i thinkStern Smile

Edited by mohawk - 24 Oct 2011 at 9:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 9:49pm
It hasnt got one because the euro5 1.5dci is designed to regen at normal engine speeds. Its not confusing, the icon is present simply because the instrument is common across the range. The DPF is not something thats meant to be feared by lots of members, all it is, is a filter that burns off every now and then, more often if you drive like a granny. Get used to them, they are here to stay. Or at least until the oil runs out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 9:57pm
Sorry rabbin8,   it may not be confusing for you but for some of us, the whole subject has been particularly difficult for some of us, especially non techy people, to get our heads around.

We are also aware that DPFs are here to stay

Thank you for your advice.

Fee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2011 at 10:44pm
Rabbin8 your right the DPF is nothing to be afraid of.  What you say about it being designed to regen at normal engine speedsmay be correct..but what does that mean?  For me 24 miles per day averaging 45 mph with acceptable traffic getting to and from work is normal driving.
 
But what about those that don't do this? If it is the case should the manual not say for 1.5 owners the light will not come on ever?
 
The point your missing, probably because you make the assumption we have been scared by Watchdog, is we want to know what is considered 'normal' driving, why don't we have a DPF warning light?  If we don't, then surely that means we are also never going to need a 'forced regen'.  If this is true then it should say so..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hamish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 1:40am
It may well be and this is just a guess that if there was a serious enough problem with the DPF on the 1.5 that it would be covered by the Engine Management Warning light - in which case you would contact the dealer - they would then run diagnostics.

The DPF in the 1.5 is active regeneration which means the ECU (ECM) changes the timing of the fuel injection (when the soot level reaches a set limit - determined by the DPF sensor) to increase temperature of the exhaust gasses  to imitate a high speed burn off. So if you regularly tootle around rather than reach motorway speeds the more often this takes place. Thus the need for different oil to handle higher pressure and increased fuel injection timings and of course higher temperature.

You don't get a warning light (DPF light) because there is no need to tell you to go do a high speed run because it is all active - ly managed...rather than passive which the 2.0 is. 

As most cars are designed by market research of one sort or another, it may have been realised that 'in general' 1.5's get used at slower speeds and thus the DPF was likely redesigned to be active regeneration and remove the need to warn the driver. This could also add to fact the 2.0 diesel is donkeys old (7+ years) and probably gets used more often as a motorway cruiser rather than around town (or indeed that is what those who purchase them use them for in general - on the motorway) - thus reaching higher speeds for burn off...and thus negating the need to redesign the DPF and it's ECU and fuel rail system for that engine - instead pouring money into it's current replacement - the 1.6 diesel with active regen because it would likely get used in equal measure - about town and motorway.

It could also add to the notion that a lot of 1.5 owners (particularly Juke owners) were complaining of poor fuel economy which would fit in with increased fuel usage due to the need to increase temperatures by injecting more fuel. These were probably the first to be fitted with the newer active DPF's - thus the fuel economy issue started there.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 10:01am
Sounds like a good guess, though I still think we need to know for sure.


Here's what it looks like from the drivers side.  The black cable is likely to be te sensor cable.


A bit closer up.  If they had got this DPF sorted out for the 1.5 then I think they should have released an owners update to explain the situation and the fact ther is no need for a DPF warning light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 10:06am
Yep that looks like the answer to me hamishThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 11:59am
Doesn't the owners' manual for each model state which 'indicators' are illuminated during ignition switch on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 12:32pm
Is there only one sensor connection then Cowp'sErmm Did you find where the actual DPF sensor unit is situated in the engine bay?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Doug999 Doug999 wrote:

Doesn't the owners' manual for each model state which 'indicators' are illuminated during ignition switch on?



Nope.it's a general statement in the owners manual although it does specify that it should illuminate in the 2.0 only....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Cowpers Cowpers wrote:

Sounds like a good guess, though I still think we need to know for sure.


Here's what it looks like from the drivers side.  The black cable is likely to be te sensor cable.


A bit closer up.  If they had got this DPF sorted out for the 1.5 then I think they should have released an owners update to explain the situation and the fact ther is no need for a DPF warning light.
Thats not a cable, its a pressure pipe. And theres two of them. they make there merry way up into the bay to the ecu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by FeeFeeReturns!!!! FeeFeeReturns!!!! wrote:

Originally posted by Doug999 Doug999 wrote:

Doesn't the owners' manual for each model state which 'indicators' are illuminated during ignition switch on?



Nope.it's a general statement in the owners manual although it does specify that it should illuminate in the 2.0 only....

Like Ive said before the 1.5 doesnt have a light, Because it doesnt need one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickbat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2011 at 10:41pm
i went to my nissan dealership today and asked them about the DPF light, their answer was it doesnt need to light up when you turn the key on, it only needs to light up when theres a problems with it.

so with that i asked my second question
so how do i know if the light works, the bulb could have blown and the DPF needs a regen and i wont know about it
his answer was your car is only 1 month old theres nothing wrong with your bulb.
i must say the guy i spoke with wasnt the one that sold us the car (it was his day off today) the salesman that dealt with our motability purchase is a top notch bloke and very helpfull with any questions you might have
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 7:42pm

Seems he missed the point of your question Rick....If there was something wrong with the bulb you would never know.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2011 at 8:06pm
He either missed the point or just, like a politician, avoided answering it!!!
 
Fee x
2.0 Visia 2007, 1.5 Dci Acenta 2008' 1.6 Acenta 2009 and 1.5dci N-Tec 2011....bye bye Qashqai!! hiya Juke 1.5dci NTEC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2011 at 1:38pm
Thought I would copy this post from a technician who posts on the Juke Owners Club on the subject - might make sense after I posted a question to ask if the 5th injector system was on 2011 Qashqai 1.5 DCi engine..
 
if its Euro step 5.
The big clue is when you turn on the ignition if their is no DPF light. then you have a step 5
ECM performs the followings to raise exhaust gas
temperature.
• Closing throttle valve to reduce intake air volume
• Retarding fuel injection timing
• Injecting additional fuel into combustion chamber during exhaust stroke (post injection)
• Performing EGR control
• Performing exhaust fuel injector control
• Performing thermoplunger control unit
When exhaust gas temperature reaches the specified value, oxidation catalyst is activated. The trapped particulate
matter is burned through a catalytic reaction using exhaust gas heat at 650 °C.

 

Fee




Edited by Fee - 06 Nov 2011 at 1:39pm
2.0 Visia 2007, 1.5 Dci Acenta 2008' 1.6 Acenta 2009 and 1.5dci N-Tec 2011....bye bye Qashqai!! hiya Juke 1.5dci NTEC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hundleton1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2013 at 12:01pm
Was their ever any consensus on this? I have a 2010 facelift 1.5 dci and still don't know if I have a DPF or not, nothing underneath but their is a large round canister off the back of the engine where Iv been told it has a combined catalyst and dpf ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2013 at 12:07am
My last one w as a 2010 (June) & didnt, they were introduced just after that basically as the 60 plate came out so the majority of 10 plate 1.5s will not though its possible some late July & August ones will.
2nd QQ ..June 2013 Black +2 360.. After moustaches in Movember, all those beards in Decembeard, I'm not looking forward to Fanuary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisw99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2013 at 11:28am
Originally posted by hundleton1 hundleton1 wrote:

Was their ever any consensus on this? I have a 2010 facelift 1.5 dci and still don't know if I have a DPF or not, nothing underneath but their is a large round canister off the back of the engine where Iv been told it has a combined catalyst and dpf ?
 
When you pull away hard, do you see a cloud of black smoke behind you?
If so - no DPF!
 
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