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Fuel Consumption

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2011 at 8:05pm
Yes i  reset the Trip Cowps.......thought id try it for Urban and Longer distance, that way can sort of get an average....not that im to bothered, Im getting better than the avge 24 Urban that the Zafira had, which holds up to the figures qouted by Nissan......Thumbs Up....to be fair, i didnt buy the Car for fuel consumption, bought solely on the looks.....Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2011 at 10:36pm
The only figure that realy counts is the calculated total. Mine is shown at the bottom of this post and equates to around 24mpg for 6700kms/4190m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 10:51am
After the weekends driving up/down the motorway 140 miles at 70mph and a couple of small trips, the mpg is now standing at 31mpg which is good and nearly back to where it was before i reset the mpg. I am still expecting a bit more but it will never go up to 39mpg like the first 2L CVT we had which was not a +2. I am aiming at 32/33 mpg nowThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kashmir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 12:02pm
... We, the Tapir and I, are averaging 33/34 mpg wherever we go - takes about 400 km to really settle down to this average - when resetting it is a wee bit scary though Ermm 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noki49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 12:41pm
My 1.6 seems to average about 29 mpg on my normal runabouts and trips to work which are between 10 -20 miles each way. My Focus only did low 30s for these same journeys so its not too bad.
Just had its first proper run from Manchester to Newcastle on the M1/A1 and averaged 39 on the way up at 70-75 mph. On the way back this dropped to 36 mpg as we had lost the Mother in Law so knocked the Cruise Control up quite a few Notches.Big smile


Edited by noki49 - 26 Apr 2011 at 6:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 6:42pm
My Trip to the East Coast in the 2.0L Petrol +2 approx 350 mile round trip of which of atleast 250 was on long runs averaged out at 35.8 MPG on the Computer read out (after reset before Trip). As I said before, I worked out Manually Over a period of 3.5 weeks for short 5mile journeys to work with the occasional longer trip and the Display said 28MPG and I worked out 26MPG so could say avge of 27 between the 2......Thumbs Up

Edited by Affman - 26 Apr 2011 at 7:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayBanJockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 11:54am
My consuption bar/indicator thingie has an error of 8% I once calculated. Shows way lower numbers than what's really going on.
 
For example, my meter shows me 34 mpg mixed driving when it is in fact 32. During motorway driving (cc at around 70 mph) it shows about 40 mpg (but would be closer to 38 in reality).


Edited by RayBanJockey - 28 Apr 2011 at 12:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 1:53pm
The thing is...I don't think you 'fill to the brim' guys..assuming that's what you've done...are going to be any more accurate.  The only way to measure your fuel use accurately would be by weight loss, not by volume change which is heavily dependent on the temperature of the fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 2:17pm

You mean mpkg Cowpers?

Anyway, what is the thermal coefficient of expansion of 95 octane petrol?


Edited by brianmf - 28 Apr 2011 at 2:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 3:34pm
For petrol its about 950x 10-6%/degC
So for a 10C change you could be 0.57L more or 0.57L less in a 60L tank.
 
The stuff will be stored at a pretty low temp underground, I would say between 5 and 10C but I'm just guessing.  travelling up the tube and splashing into the tank will impart a temperature increase as will contact with the tank.
 
What that temperature change would be I really couldn't hazard a guess.  On cold days i would imagine 5C or less but on warm days 10-15C could well be realisitic.
 
So I think this would only have a small effect if you ran full to empty, but the effect is bigger if you ran full to half a tank, then calculated how much you had used.
 
Also don't foget the pumps are only calibrated to be +/-1% accurate, those not so well looked after could be worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 4:07pm
I had an interesting e-mail the other day expalining the temperatures and filling the tank slowly instead of pulling the trigger full on. I,ll see if i can find the mailErmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 4:18pm
Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role.
 
A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.
 
When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. You should be pumping on low mode, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some of the liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.
 
One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL. The reason for this is the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.
 
Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up; most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 5:51pm

Now we know other ways the fuel companies are pulling a fast one on the poor old motorist. Good information Cowpers and Mohawk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 9:09pm
Well I guess these is a good reason why Aircraft measure fuel (and fuel consumption) by mass, rather than volume? 
 
To be honest, though, I don't think the fuel is going to expand by all that much as a result of going into a warm tank or pump system. Whilst it's true that the fuel contacting the tank will be slightly warmed up it's not going to be by much due to the relatively tiny mass of the fuel in comparison to the tank. Anyone who's ridden a motorcycle will tell you that the tank almost immediately cools to the temperature of the fuel when it's filled. On a warm, humid day it's not unusual to see water condensation on the tank after filling. So the temperature of the fuel isn't going to increase by much, and the coefficients of expansion of diesel and petrol are not that high - it's a tiny effect.  And, anyway, by that time it's already been through the metering system. And I tend to fill up when I need fuel. If you fill up early in order to buy fuel at the "right" time, then you're probably going to fill up more often. Almost certainly this will more-than offset the tiny saving in fuel by buying "cool" petrol or diesel.
 
As for filling the tank slowly.. Well.... Who knows? But by filling the tank slowly you're making the thinnest stream of fuel possible, and maintaining it for longest time - so you're exposing the maximum surface area to the air for the maximum duration - ideal conditions for evaporation to take place. Whether you pour the stuff in fast or slow you're going to displace the same volume, but if you fill the car slowly it's probably going to be more petrol-laden so pouring it in slowly is probably worse, not better. Either way I doubt you will be able to detect the difference.
 
As for letting your tank run down only half-way? - do me a lemon. The amount of petrol suspended in the air above the fuel is tiny. It's not even worth thinking about and is certain to be offset by the extra fuel you use in driving to the fuel pumps twice as often. All modern cars have well-sealed tanks by law to keep emissions down & prevent fires. A simple thought test - Does your parked car stink of Petrol/Diesel on a still day No? well, then the vapour above the tank is not escaping in significant quantities & you don't need to worry about it.
 
The final bit is a bit more plausible - But these systems are typically well filtered, and often have multiple tanks - so they fill the one they're NOT dispensing and give it time to "settle" before using it. There are a few old garages where that might still have a single tank and a lot of crud in it and they generally close the pumps whilst they're being filled for exactly this reason. They don't want to get sued or gather bad publicity - so they do take care.
 
All in my opinion. I am not a trained engineer or scientist, but it makes sense to me.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 9:19pm
All food for thought though innitBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soup Dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 9:37pm
i tried to fill up on tuesday and the pump dispenser nozzle was playing up, couldn't get any flow through without the auto shut off cutting in. got about £70 in and the pump shut off!! when i went to pay, i told the guy about the nozzle and how it stopped and he said it auto stops after 3 mins as a safety feature. so don't pump too slow!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 11:21pm
Well that would make sense. It would put an effective limit on how much fuel could be accidentally dispensed, wouldn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soup Dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 10:17am
i know it makes sense, was just replying to the earlier post about filling slowly to avoid losing fuel by evaporation (whether true or not!) do it slow but don't take more than 3 minsSmile 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2011 at 12:39pm

To be honest, though, if economy was a main driver in vehicle selection - why on earth would you choose to buy a SUV?

Buying cars with the Qashqai's carrying capacity that can achieve 60mpg is perfectly possible (VW Golf Bluemotion estate???) - but they're not much fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2011 at 1:41pm
First of all, the QQ is not an SUV; it's a crossover styled estate car and it's carrying capacity is not that fantastic either. Even the +2 version does not fall into the SUV category and is not endowed with generous carrying capacity.
Our friend FeeFee has gone further than most in trying different versions of the QQ and has found that they are all very thirsty by comparison with similar engine sizes in other similar vehicles. This is the one persistent criticism of the QQ and that has to be recognised.
The official published figures are a joke! They are obtained automatically on a rolling-road dynamometer and take no account of the variable terrain and human foibles that occur in real life driving conditions.
For comfort and performance, it's a really nice vehicle but my overall average of 24mpg is just not satisfactory for any 2.0l petrol engined family car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2011 at 2:03pm

It's true that the QQ isn't as good as most comparable vehicles on fuel consumption - The Diesel engine and auto transmission on mine really feels dated by today's standards and lack things that are becoming quite common on midrange cars (variable geometry turbos, for example). I guess that's part of the reason why they're not as economical as some similar vehicles - dated technology. But, then again, a new VW Tiguan (for example) will set you back 10-30 percent MORE than a comparably equipped QQ - you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 
 


Edited by 2Fat2Bald - 02 May 2011 at 2:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2011 at 2:11pm
Agreed. We were indeed torn between the Tiguan and the QQ. In the final analysis, with our relatively low mileage, it would have taken a long time to justify the additional cost of the Tiguan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mohawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 2:22pm
How's the MPG going on all your 2.L petrol engines??
We are still getting around the 32mpg ish mark . Bearing in mind it's a +2 4wd CVTBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan40alt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 2:39pm
I was getting close on 37mpg but it's dropped to 33mpg.....and it doesn't matter whether I use 'Super' unleaded or standard.

I'm sure they're watering it down with some chemical. Angry



PS: eh!  What's this old forum about?




Have they been doing it for years then?


Edited by allan40alt - 23 Nov 2011 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 2:57pm
AS indicated in another thread, on a recent 900km trip to the UK, I got an average of 8.5l/100km (33mpg), which is a massive contrast to the overall average as shown below.
Because 90% of my mileage is pottering around locally the consumption is pretty awful. From my 5-year experience of driving a 2l diesel ia similar situation, I don't think that exhibited such a large difference between minimum and maximum consumption figures.
As a matter of interest, that 900km trip made a significant difference to the performance of the car. It now seems much more lively, although the consumption has not changed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craigfishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 3:02pm
its good to give them a good run and a clear out now and again brian Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan40alt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 4:27pm
Maybe the fuel manufacturers are omitting some additive that they use to make the fuel burn more efficiently.

The octane rating would remain the same so that it complied, but the omission of the additive would stop the fuel mixture burning as efficient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 4:35pm
Ive done about 6.5K in 8 months and mines still the same as when I bought it...around 27 Urban and 36 Motorways at an average 75/80...Embarrassed....The calculated figures always come around 2mpg below the one on the dash and would say the Urban could be better if I strictly observed the Arrow thingy and changed up a bit more, but as ive said before i would do this more if i could hear and feel the engine like in my old zafira, but the damn thing is so quite and vibration free...Smooth as a nut....THUMBS~132
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