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My Brakes - Opinions Please?

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Grainger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 5:15pm
Hi,

Please see these pictures of the brakes from my car. 400 miles old on a 2 year old car.
Would love opinions please?

http://photobucket.com/qashqaibrakes





































Thanks


Edited by Grainger - 03 Jul 2012 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 6:17pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shonadoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 7:41pm
Are you sure this car is 2 years old....I'm no expert but that looks appalling to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Shonadoll Shonadoll wrote:

Are you sure this car is 2 years old....I'm no expert but that looks appalling to me.


Yep car is a 10 plate car. However the best part is that apparently the discs and pads were changed less than 6 months ago and not much mileage.

Im glad i am not the only one who thinks they are shocking!!


Edited by Grainger - 03 Jul 2012 at 9:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shonadoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:20pm
Well having seen mine, on a 57 plate 75,000 miler, mine are in much better condition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rabbin8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 9:29pm
Looks like the thing has been in the sea for a while, whereabouts in the country did it live before you had it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:32pm
This is actually a bit of a bugbear of mine - the brakes on the Qashqai are simply not big enough for the vehicle. They also appear to be a relatively poor quality system.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shonadoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by rabbin8 rabbin8 wrote:

Looks like the thing has been in the sea for a while, whereabouts in the country did it live before you had it?

That's actually a very good point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ssssstevo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 10:48pm
My brakes I find are REALLY responsive, compared to my old car
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 12:02am
Yes. But your last car was a hovercraft?

:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2Fat2Bald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 12:07am
Just viewed the youtube video. Exactly what kind of nut buys a brand new car and then goes crawling around underneath it, looking for rusty parts?

Strike that. What kind of nut cares if there is some surface colouring on some parts that it's intended nobody will ever see? they're not likely to rust away any time soon, so who cares? They're probably intended to be like that.

As I've always said. If you want a car remarkably like the Qashqai without the QQ's build-down-to-a-price-in-places feel to it, then VW will sell you a Tiguan for five grand more than the equivalent Qashqai and BMW will well you an X1 for ten grand more.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice. A lot of average car, or a rather less premium car!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 1:10am
Originally posted by Shonadoll Shonadoll wrote:

Well having seen mine, on a 57 plate 75,000 miler, mine are in much better condition.


I am not suprised at all, i would be shocked to see brakes that are in a worse condition to be fair. The service manager in the garage repairing them is utterly shocked by them as well.

Originally posted by rabbin8 rabbin8 wrote:

Looks like the thing has been in the sea for a while, whereabouts in the country did it live before you had it?


As far as i know only around Oxford area, however i cannot be sure until i actually receive the log book through.

Originally posted by 2Fat2Bald 2Fat2Bald wrote:

This is actually a bit of a bugbear of mine - the brakes on the Qashqai are simply not big enough for the vehicle. They also appear to be a relatively poor quality system.


Im unsure on this, but looking at the quality of mine, im shocked!!

Originally posted by allan40alt allan40alt wrote:

You're not alone:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71o3uhHBjj8&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL0C29C8AC4DD50F56


Thanks, will watch tomorrow as too tired now! :-)

Originally posted by Ssssstevo Ssssstevo wrote:

My brakes I find are REALLY responsive, compared to my old car


Im sure my brakes would be responsive if there was any left!! The corrosion is beyond a joke!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 7:48am
If you look at any QQ sitting on the forecourt of the dealership you will see that the vehicle has been steam cleaned and as a result after a short period of time rust will develop, and if the vehicle is not used it gets really bad and that seems to have happened in this case especially if the vehicle has only done 400 miles in 6 months. If it is not used it will end up looking like this. We know that the disks on the QQ are not good quality. They will need replaced again and as for the calipers clean them up and paint them with Hamerit smooth paint it keeps the rust away. I am not certain if I saw that the rubber seal was split, if it is that will also need replaced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sadsod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 11:59am
Agreed thats a lot of rust , had to replace front disks on my Almera at 2 years approx .If our QQ sits for a few days without moving you can see the surface of disk starting to change colour .
Wont say anything else here in case I jinx your post.Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulyoung666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by sadsod sadsod wrote:

If our QQ sits for a few days without moving you can see the surface of disk starting to change colour .
 
that wil happen on any car .....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 12:20am
I forgot to say. My car had an M3 service 23 miles before these photos were taken. (Apparently!!) Boxes ticked to say brakes / pads checked???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 12:23am
Originally posted by tommy tommy wrote:

If you look at any QQ sitting on the forecourt of the dealership you will see that the vehicle has been steam cleaned and as a result after a short period of time rust will develop, and if the vehicle is not used it gets really bad and that seems to have happened in this case especially if the vehicle has only done 400 miles in 6 months. If it is not used it will end up looking like this. We know that the disks on the QQ are not good quality. They will need replaced again and as for the calipers clean them up and paint them with Hamerit smooth paint it keeps the rust away. I am not certain if I saw that the rubber seal was split, if it is that will also need replaced.


Why would i clean the calipers up and paint them? I bought this car from a dealer like this and it is now in another Nissan dealer being repaired. So far the amount of work taking pace is around 2000.
My point of the photos is that they sold me the car in this state! This is now going to be the 3rd set of brakes in 2 years and 37000 miles!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sadsod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 10:02am
Originally posted by paulyoung666 paulyoung666 wrote:

Originally posted by sadsod sadsod wrote:

If our QQ sits for a few days without moving you can see the surface of disk starting to change colour .
 
that wil happen on any car .....

If you took a look at the photographs and read the mans question ,its the atrocious state of the disks and brakes on his QQ that is the subject here.
 whilst i thank you for your guidance perhaps you could offer your expert opinion on the disks ,calipers and pistons/seals shown in pictures.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by sadsod sadsod wrote:

Originally posted by paulyoung666 paulyoung666 wrote:

Originally posted by sadsod sadsod wrote:

If our QQ sits for a few days without moving you can see the surface of disk starting to change colour .
 
that wil happen on any car .....

If you took a look at the photographs and read the mans question ,its the atrocious state of the disks and brakes on his QQ that is the subject here.
 whilst i thank you for your guidance perhaps you could offer your expert opinion on the disks ,calipers and pistons/seals shown in pictures.Confused


Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan40alt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 2:01pm
That car looks as if it's been driven repeatedly along the sands and sea.

Someone seems to have had fun but not hosed everything down afterwards.

The scoured look of the pads and discs is like sand damage and the heavy rusting is like you see on metal after coastal sea water has been pounding on it.

The deposits on the other chassis and suspension units also have a 'sandy' look about them. 

Have you owned this car from new?


Edited by allan40alt - 05 Jul 2012 at 2:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by allan40alt allan40alt wrote:

That car looks as if it's been driven repeatedly along the sands and sea.

Someone seems to have had fun but not hosed everything down afterwards.

The scoured look of the pads and discs is like sand damage and the heavy rusting is like you see on metal after coastal sea water has been pounding on it.

The deposits on the other chassis and suspension units also have a 'sandy' look about them. 

Have you owned this car from new?


Hi, no i bought this Car from a nissan dealer 2 weeks ago. They say the brakes were changed 6 months ago and only a few miles have been driven since then as it has sat since Feb supposably.
I know this could happen to the brakes when the car has sat for so long but the extent of the damage is worrying.
My issue with all of this is that the car was sold to me in this state. The dealership are still saying they did 180 point check on the car which clearly they didnt. A M3 service was also supposably carried out and they have ticked the form to say the brakes were checked. 3 members of staff say they drove the car and couldnt feel an issue with it despite my parter warning them there was a problem with the brakes. The extent of the damage was only made clear when the car went into another dealership to be looked at.

I am at my wits end now!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan40alt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 2:36pm
I would say the car is not fit for purpose (ie it is in a dangerous condition) and you are entitled to a full refund.



Send them your report and photos. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by allan40alt allan40alt wrote:

I would say the car is not fit for purpose (ie it is in a dangerous condition) and you are entitled to a full refund.



Send them your report and photos. 


Hi, i spoke to CAB 2 weeks ago when i first got the car. Thwy sent me a formal letter to send to the dealer, they have ignored it. The time limit has run out so the next step would be court action. However i am waiting to see how bad the car is once all the work has been done to it at another dealership. should be ready tomorrow if they dont find anything else wrong with it but i am not holding my breath on that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shonadoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2012 at 4:29pm
Even if all the work IS done, I imagine it's really taken the shine off what was supposed to be a happy purchase. I think it could have been handled so much better and I sincerely hope that they OFFER you some form of compensation.

My engine blew up just after an independent garage had changed the timing belt, they accepted full responsibility and I got a new engine, but it was their immediate acceptance of at fault that made me relax and feel I was being taken care of. I really sympathise with you having to go through all this x

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gadget Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 10:43am
Good luck Grainger.... great blog!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini_mad_paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 2:34pm
You need to get in touch with Motor Codes, they are the regulating body for the motor industry.

Good luck.

BTW I had my discs changed at 20k miles after 18 months as they suddenly rusted similar to yours have. 
The car was left for 1 week in London whilst we went on holiday, we came back and I had to drive home (250 miles) with next to no brakes!

Luckily it was repaired under warranty as they agreed it wasn't wear and tear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by w1zzer w1zzer wrote:

Been reading your blog 
 
Very Interesting and more detail
 
Hope the car is to your satisfaction when you pick it up todayThumbs Up


No such luck, will be updating blog now, give me an hour as lots more details. Thanks.

Originally posted by gadget gadget wrote:

Good luck Grainger.... great blog!!


Thanks

Originally posted by mini_mad_paul mini_mad_paul wrote:

You need to get in touch with Motor Codes, they are the regulating body for the motor industry.

Good luck.

BTW I had my discs changed at 20k miles after 18 months as they suddenly rusted similar to yours have. 
The car was left for 1 week in London whilst we went on holiday, we came back and I had to drive home (250 miles) with next to no brakes!

Luckily it was repaired under warranty as they agreed it wasn't wear and tear.


I have contacted motor codes today and they gave me lots of good advice, sadly they cannot act on my behalf as they only deal with new cars and mine was used. However the lady i spoke to was great and she is happy to give me further advice if needed. She was very shocked by all of this.
Thanks anyway!!


Edited by Craigfishin - 06 Jul 2012 at 6:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 7:02pm
Blog is now updated. There are 4 new seperate updates!! Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2012 at 9:17pm
Your blog is a shocking read.  Good luck with your continued efforts and this sorry saga is a typical example of an organisation digging themselves an ever deeper hole for themselves, rather than doing the right thing and admit they messed up.

I would not be surprised if they eventually offer you a deal attached to a gagging order thus maintaining their 'good reputation' within the motoring community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2012 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Doug999 Doug999 wrote:

Your blog is a shocking read.  Good luck with your continued efforts and this sorry saga is a typical example of an organisation digging themselves an ever deeper hole for themselves, rather than doing the right thing and admit they messed up.

I would not be surprised if they eventually offer you a deal attached to a gagging order thus maintaining their 'good reputation' within the motoring community.


Exactly my thoughts, they could have sorted this within the first few days but they decided to deny everything and here we are into week number 3 and still no resolution.
Im not sure they will ask for a 'gagging order' as they are already aware it is out there and they seem not to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 1:09pm
Just to let you know, my blog has been updated with a lot of updates from yesterday. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pickle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2012 at 8:46pm
Grainger,

From your photos it certainly looks like the discs were changed in the not too distant past. There is virtually no wear (not corrosion) on them. Unfortunately the condition of the discs would suggest that the car has also been laid up for a long time without moving. The fact that one of the front discs is more corroded than the other would suggest that on the odd occasion it has moved for a test drive maybe that it was put back in the same place where it has clearly seen the worst of the rain on one side of the car for a prolonged period.

Your pictures are typical of a car that has done very little monthly mileage. All discs rust fairly quickly if continually exposed to the elements , yes even over night, but most of us get in the car in the morning and after a few pumps of the brake pedal its all back to normal as any corrosion is only on the surface of the disc and is quickly buffed off. Some wheel designs do expose the discs to the elements more than others!

When excessive rusting takes place the rust eats right into the disc and causes pitting of the disc surface. Sometimes a good run and enthusiastic use of the brakes can wear this off but unfortunately once it starts it rarely gets better if you aren't doing decent miles.

If you look about you will see many cars with very corroded rear discs but the fronts are fine. In many cases this is because the driver doesn't use the brakes heavily and most cars do 75% of the braking on the fronts before the rears come into play in anger.

The corrosion you see deep inside the brake calliper piston and what looks to be a torn dust seal are also caused by lack of use. The calliper itself rusts and that rust spreads into where the piston dust seal resides. The rust expands and forces the dust seal to swell and grab onto the piston, it's not uncommon and usually a seized piston follows.

Bottom line is this cars brakes are definitely not roadworthy and should never have passed a reputable garage's PDI. Did the car have a fresh MOT? because if it did I would be informing VOSA about the tester who carried it out.

One last thing (for now!) is the use of wheel cleaners. Maybe the person who cleaned the cars used one of these aggressive wheel cleaning solutions in a spray which breaks down the brake dust but also any build of crud, grease, road grime etc. which actually slow down rust in their own little way. The condition of the hubs and callipers are terrible given the age of the car.

How do I know all this? I used to work in my mate's garage in my youth and have changed more discs and pads than I care to remember. I've seen them all including one old lady who used to get a full set of discs and pads every year with her annual service and she did an average of 600 miles between services!!

Hope this helps.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grainger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2012 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Pickle Pickle wrote:

Grainger,

From your photos it certainly looks like the discs were changed in the not too distant past. There is virtually no wear (not corrosion) on them. Unfortunately the condition of the discs would suggest that the car has also been laid up for a long time without moving. The fact that one of the front discs is more corroded than the other would suggest that on the odd occasion it has moved for a test drive maybe that it was put back in the same place where it has clearly seen the worst of the rain on one side of the car for a prolonged period.

Your pictures are typical of a car that has done very little monthly mileage. All discs rust fairly quickly if continually exposed to the elements , yes even over night, but most of us get in the car in the morning and after a few pumps of the brake pedal its all back to normal as any corrosion is only on the surface of the disc and is quickly buffed off. Some wheel designs do expose the discs to the elements more than others!

When excessive rusting takes place the rust eats right into the disc and causes pitting of the disc surface. Sometimes a good run and enthusiastic use of the brakes can wear this off but unfortunately once it starts it rarely gets better if you aren't doing decent miles.

If you look about you will see many cars with very corroded rear discs but the fronts are fine. In many cases this is because the driver doesn't use the brakes heavily and most cars do 75% of the braking on the fronts before the rears come into play in anger.

The corrosion you see deep inside the brake calliper piston and what looks to be a torn dust seal are also caused by lack of use. The calliper itself rusts and that rust spreads into where the piston dust seal resides. The rust expands and forces the dust seal to swell and grab onto the piston, it's not uncommon and usually a seized piston follows.

Bottom line is this cars brakes are definitely not roadworthy and should never have passed a reputable garage's PDI. Did the car have a fresh MOT? because if it did I would be informing VOSA about the tester who carried it out.

One last thing (for now!) is the use of wheel cleaners. Maybe the person who cleaned the cars used one of these aggressive wheel cleaning solutions in a spray which breaks down the brake dust but also any build of crud, grease, road grime etc. which actually slow down rust in their own little way. The condition of the hubs and callipers are terrible given the age of the car.

How do I know all this? I used to work in my mate's garage in my youth and have changed more discs and pads than I care to remember. I've seen them all including one old lady who used to get a full set of discs and pads every year with her annual service and she did an average of 600 miles between services!!

Hope this helps.

Bob


Hi, thanks for your in depth reply. I know this has happened because it has sat there for however long. However as words of a service manager 'looks like its sdat in the thames for 6 months'.
My issue with the car is that they sold me it in this state. They also say an M3 service was carried out on the car and even have produced paperwork to prove this which includes them ticking the box to say they checked all the brakes. 2 independant mechanics, one being another nissan dealer have said there is no possible way the M3 service has been carried out. If you interested further, read my blog as i am not allowed to post information on here as it gets removed. It is all on there.

Thanks again
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Hope it all gets resolved for you
 
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